Ammunition Capacity

This post refers primarily to the Paragon, but it does have significance to greater or lesser extent to primary weapons in general.
Unlike most conventional weapons, the Paragon operator must contend with 10 rather than the usual 12 magazines. I don’t find any adequate reason for this restriction, especially since the Paragon offers a very low volume of shots per each magazine.
The profile image of the Paragon presents itself as equipped with a very short magazine. Why on earth would anyone go into combat against giant OP enemies that require repeated shots, with a truncated ammunition supply?
My last level 13 mission against Bugs required expenditure of half my ammunition, 5 magazines, to halt one wave of bugs.
I have read other posts where players are requesting faster times to reload in order to deal with the new concentrations of enemies, and while this is understandable, I would far prefer to have more ammunition at my disposal.
I want a greater ammunition capacity in those primary weapons capable of dealing with these enemy swarms. That would be the Paragon and the Camper for us who prefer guns that resemble reality. Of course, it wouldn’t hurt to improve capacity for others, but the two big guns are absolutely screaming for larger magazines. At the very least, the Paragon requires two additional magazines for the standard 12 in a full load out.

It’s because different weapons have different trade-offs. For example, the AR-14D ‘Paragon’ doesn’t need the same ammo setup as the other assault rifles. Compared to the other assault rifles, it’s stronger, more accurate, and has a very powerful poison that slows enemies to a crawl for a decent amount of time (people tend to forget to mention this in these type of discussions, even though it is one of its greatest strengths). In all fairness, it needs to have some drawback. It would be too good otherwise. Can you imagine having its accuracy, strength, then combine that with the magazine size of the Justice, and you’d have the ability to carry 12 of them? The enemy would be poisoned too, so they’re not even going anywhere anyway.

It would be like comparing the SMG-45 ‘Defender’ to something like the AR-20L ‘Justice’ (or MP-98 ‘Knight’ SMG, if you insist on staying within the SMG category), talking about how the Defender can’t output anywhere near the same damage. It’s not meant to. That’s not its game. The Defender has huge magazines, you can hold up to 16 of them, it has mini-stun, and fast reloads. It’s not meant to compete for damage or kills. It’s made so you can sit there and hold off the enemy all day if you need to, either so your teammates can continue laying on damage, or to buy your teammates some time to squeeze out of a tight situation, etc.

Likewise, not all weapons are made to deal with enemy swarms, as you put it. At least not in the same way. Have you seen the RX-1 Rail Gun’s rate of fire? It’s terrible. Yet it’s arguably one of the best weapons in the game.

This x100, some weapons are just better when used vs certain factions, and even when used for certain playstyles.
For instance you wouldn’t want a weapon that takes a long time to start firing if you’re trying to be stealthy vs bugs ;)

What makes the Paragon such a must-have in the loadout, in your opinion?

The poison balances this weapon otherwise it would be too OP. The camper on the other hand, would probably do well with 10 shots vs 8. But other than this, that gun is also super strong when used appropriately.

Too OP?!? Absolute b.s.!
If you want to play minimouse there are plenty of opportunities, don’t begin to imagine to extend the almighty wimpiness t: o all primaries.
What makes the Paragon a very good choice?

  1. The Camper is not allowed to have a bayonet for improved melee. In my mind this is terminally stupid, but like idiots in politics, it’s ubiquitous.
  2. No other primary offers slowing via poison. Yep, this is HD, which means that the Paragon is far more deadly to fellow players than enemies. Yep, it’s effing tedious, but true. However, when deployed correctly, the slowing can spring team members from being trapped by the oppression of the map, and if you’ve played this game more than twice you should understand this.
    The statement that it must have a downside is pure nonsense. We are fighting massive waves of giant overpowering enemies, and you are going to defend an arbitrarily truncated ammunition supply? OMG, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
    Guess what, there is no valid reason to limit ammo supply.
    Check it out, the Paragon fires the same round as the Justice, but the Justice comes with 12 full magazines. Say again why the Paragon can’t have more magazines and higher capacity.
    Yeah right.

Not sure what all the excitement is for.

I’m quite confident you’re not using it right.

That’s how balancing fundamentally works. You give things different strengths and weakness to make them interesting and to provide incentive to play with a variety of weapons. Whether you think the devs hit the mark or not is one thing, but the concept is not nonsense.

There are laser and arc weapons for people that feel this way.

Very well then.

Heck, I think the Paragon is the best assault rifle in the game, and one of the best weapons overall, even with the drawbacks you’re complaining about. I think you’re just really underrating it. It’s already an extremely good weapon.

Yeah, I know, I know, this is where you’re going to call me a “defender” or whatever and say that I “just can’t take criticism” and whatever else (and that’s fine, you do what you’ve got to do), but really, Paragon doesn’t need a buff. In fact, funny enough, I think you may have inadvertently made a pretty good case for why the Paragon is already strong.

Anyway, your argument is stronger with the Camper. That one I can at least see.

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Uh, no Lein, not even close. Balance occurs when offensive and defensive power are evenly matched, it has little to do with arbitrary imposed limits, and much to do with application of force vs. the power to withstand that force. How one can justify pumping up enemies to new levels whilst maintaining pre-expansion offensive power, and calling it balance is at best a desperate knee jerk rear guard action. Maybe you are playing a different game, because if you bother to notice, there are very good players who are calling for offensive improvements.
Who knows, maybe the game is easier on PC., but it’s pretty ridiculous to assume that your playing experience is universal.
Greater ammunition capacity is a key to engaging multiple enemies, which is absolutely necessary when one is swarmed by hordes. The Paragon rarely outright kills, it takes multiple shots to accomplish this.
Lein, you can have what ever opinion you wish, but the Paragon needs greater ammo capacity.

Yep, your reply is unsurprising.
However, here are a few points for you to consider regarding the annoying arbitrariness in HD, that is assuming you have the willingness to examine anything.

  1. Enemies always, always flank and attack from the rear. There is no logic applicable here, enemies simply descend from every conceivable point of the compass, all the time.
  2. If you have a less than full magazine, quickly topping off your ammunition leaves you with a less than full magazine.
  3. Enemies have absolutely zero sense of self preservation. They will mindlessly attack until dead.
    Nothing here is attributable to game play style or ability Lein, so your pop psychology needs some tweaking. There simply are aspects of this game that are irrational, and thus without any fathomable logic.
    Ammunition Capacity for the Paragon is a case in point.
    In conclusion, I have never cited myself as anything other than a good player. Last time I did so, you jumped all over my post with your typical fake psychological perspective, which is at best ignorant.
    However, since you have accused me of bad play, and blaming the game to cover bad play, I’d like to point out that I have repeatedly stated I’m not an expert player.

I just came in to point out that the Paragon is very ammo-hungry and 2 additional magazines will not make any change. And now serious, Paragon is not the weapon that should be balanced - poison is doing all the job; You are low on ammunition? Slow your enemies with a single shot and wait for the resupply to land.

You don’t use Paragon’s full potential or you need to learn how to conserve your ammunition. Being said that, you can equip resupply pack and problem solved in all cases.

I have been abusing its power in the past. One of the best assault rifles in-game. Maybe you meant to lower ammunition capacity to six? :stuck_out_tongue:


I should mention that I play the vast majority of missions solo. In my experience, there are some real advantages to solo play, two of the greatest being that you have no one dragging your injured self off the map and killing you, and you don’t need to avoid shooting teammates. BUT you also have serious disadvantages, in that you only have 4 choices to prepare for the mission.
If, like myself one chooses a tactical perk, such as smoke grenades, any resupply only arrives after the full cool down period. I just find the Paragon uses far too much ammunition to remain viable under these conditions. Now, it may well be true that others have found a way around this, and I have yet to do so, but two additional magazines would certainly help to extend the time the rifle stays viable, without I think, making the gun overpowered, or overshadowing the usefulness of other primary weapons.
I have noticed that since the expansion the differences between the Paragon and the Justice seem to be clearer. The Paragon definitely lacks the penetration of the latter, a big factor when vs. Cyborgs, but against the other two enemies it aquits itself with aplomb…as long as the ammunition remains available.
I have run out of ammunition on multiple occasions, and/or run so dangerously low that my Paragon became a funny looking spear.
While I enjoy it’s slowing capabilities, I find myself deploying it less and less, because of the arrested ammunition capacity.
Yes, a resupply pack is an option, but it would require leaving my shield behind, and this would mean a very different approach to how I play the game.
I’m left concluding that it’s much simpler to leave the Paragon at home, which is too bad, because it really is a unique piece of equipment.

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Maybe it’s time to try something different? I change my entire loadout each run, it’s super useful if you want to be universal and teaches you how to use every stratagem in-game. Don’t stick with one loadout! The game content is too huge to let you run out of ideas on how to build awesome & fun equipment.

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