Following the host?

I do not know if I imagined something in my own head or maybe someone thinks same (or opposite), so I wanted to know your opinions.

I’am recently entering a lot of other people’s games and I often see the situation of the lack of a clearly defined leader. There will always be some level 50 player who thinks that he will now show the direction or another genius will rush spamming “move” (so yes, this is the only one proper type of playing this game, you have to fly to break your neck because one or other is in a hurry). Often during the fight someone starts to withdraw from the point, or push in one direction causing at least big problems for the rest of the unit and often causing their death. Sometimes someone “strategically” chooses cardio percussion - so that others soldiers have to run after him.

Who should be the squad leader? Because in my opinion the default leader should be the host. Why?

  1. This is his lobby (he is the captain of the ship)
  2. At the beginning of the mission, he sets the starting point, arranging the order and direction of the unit’s march in his head
  3. He has the right to kick soldier out of the unit

As a player with over 1000 hours of experience, I think I discovered the essence. It doesn’t matter if any important man “knows for sure” that you have to go in one direction because it’s the most optimal way, order etc. It does not matter at all. The most important thing for the group to act as one. Only then they will be able to get out of any situation. Even if the commander makes the wrong decision, he will lead the unit in the wrong direction, if everyone follows him in unity, they will be able to somehow defend themselves and break through every cluster of enemies. However, if the splitting suddenly starts and everyone chooses their own path, then there are deaths, loss of equipment and often the squad members leaves the game.
Have you got a good runs with only 2 players? You were well organized and fights went a way better than with 4 divers in chaos?

Recently, when entering someones game, I don’t even look at the map. I follow the host (yellow by default) and try to create the appearance of a well-organized group. When 2 squad members go together, the others adapt, and when the host doesn’t allow to manipulate himself, he regains power over his game. Sometimes it’s nice to look at.

Also recently, a friend and I had such a situation that he as a host did not run at all. Everyone flew forward, leaving him far behind and trying to lead the group, but he walked slowly in his designated direction. When I joined him and slowly trot next to him, the situation turned around and the other 2 members of the group began to wait for us and let us be in the middle of the screen instead of leaving at the end. I’m just trying to show that a single player can make a difference. It can show good habits to others. And frighteningly few people have any good habits in this game.

I joined someons lobby? In that case, above all, I try to help him in HIS mission. And 2 players going as one will also motivate those 2 to adapt.

In my opinion, the host should be marked with something like a rank or icon showing all members of the group who is the decision maker here.

Now im after account reset and I’m flying 50 lvl for the third time and somehow I don’t have any authority because I don’t have 50 with a nickname. Once I played solo and already half a mission behind me, 3 people dive during the battle and joined the alarm fight. It’s cool, I keep fighting, I let them drop the equipment. But the alarm goes on and on and I just want to shoot some enemies, so I kill them happily, and here those 3 who joined starting pullingthe screen because they must go to the checkpoint next to us and I planned a round in a completely different direction. Finally I landed on the very edge of the screen and something killed me that I couldn’t see. A few harsh words and one kick and finally the other 2 came to their senses and began to follow me. I see that people completely do not understand the case. Damn, if you join someone please obey his game rules. Who gives you the right to promote yourself to a leader?

What do you think? I am thinking right and the host should be a leader by default (unless he indicates otherwise). Do you pay attention to this case when playing?
I know players who will not agree with me because every time I see them they starting to lead and manipulate/forcing the host to do as they decide. I personally have allergies to this behavior … but maybe only I have?

I agree.

I miss the custom message (that would do for strict rules that you agree upon joining the host) before you are able to join, preferably displayed when the players are on the loading screen.

But changing nickname into “No Friendly Fire”, “No Retreat”, “Follow Me” (can be combined together for better results) also seem to do the job.

yea, I will change to “GET OVER HERE!”

I think making more use of placing a marker on the map will help. It allows anyone who is checking the map to see where the host/leader is intending to go. I don’t see it used often but when I do the team more often moves as one.

As for your point, I agree the host should be first choice for leader but that also requires them to lead! Part of the problem is weak leadership, I don’t mean that in an elitist way, more that if the leader doesn’t really know what to do/is overwhelmed leaves the door open for a new leader. This is part of divers I really enjoy-the non verbal communication between players and especially when you sync well!

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Yes. I agree. When host dont know what to do he is even counting on helping him in the mission. Thats OK.

Making marker on the map is also usefull leading tool but only in big picture. Somethimes group is running and face for example a giant rock, host wantbto ho left but some of group members insist to go right. Annoying situation for me.
Or during the fight with big spown of warlords host want go anticlockwise and one guy is running other direction and everyone are on the edge of the screen.
Somethimes is really easier to play solo than with people who dont know what to do or trying to force other to do as they like.
I think that crown icon on host helldiver would help some people to understand. (Crown icon could be moved by host to other helldiver).

I have experienced the same as you, I feel this is an aspect of a shared screen game. These moments establish a leader, it can be an issue when you get two who will not yield but when people work as a team and are not playing egoistically there is no need for a defined leader.

Helldivers can be an easy game with a good team playing with randoms provides these sorts of challenges much more often. These experience can go well or poorly but thats when you either make friends or do not :smiley:

If I don’t like the way the team dynamic is I will find a new team or create my own.

Microphones always help with communication, the difference is significant.

I meant to address this before, Helldivers enemies are infinite, that guy walking off screen is probably walking the the next objective wondering why the rest of the team is playing an RS (retaliatory strike) mid mission or assuming they are making a safe retreat. After 1800+ hrs I don’t want to stop and fight an endless fight just out of sight of a mission objective! However all that said I wanted to tell you your post has me thinking about team interactions and how to be a better team mate and to make allowances for other players and other play styles, thank you :slight_smile:

Yea, if objective is done its more that welcome to walk away but more often people just allow enemies to push them from objective that is not finished when doing for ex. Rocket Silo defend mission. Then objective lands on the edge of the screen and the team cant even defend. People who know how to play can easy circle enemies or can evade their attacs and go through their lines and push objective position.
Its of course extreme bad playing and end with kicking in most of the time but we can transfer the idea for different situations. Like - Im the host, i want to approach AA guns and i want to enter from bottom enterance and rest the team is walking towards to the side enterace. Im ending on the edge of the screen trying to squeeze between screen edge and AA gun and finally im stuck there because rest of the the team dont give a f…k where 4th crew member is. When they finaly realize im lost im already dead.

I came to this thinking when I was saving RS maps and only multiplayer i could afford was joining others. Then i realize that this game dont have own serwers. You are not playing on public serwers but you are IN SOMEONES PRIVATE GAME. Only thing you are doing is helping your host to finish his game. He has the right to abort it and kick you. You are only a soldier in his group.

I started to act as only a soldier, Im entering other games and Im following the host - the owner of the session and Im helping them win. Thats why im always upset when other people cant respect that.

If the team are regularly unable to defend an objective then they are on the wrong difficultly or don’t care to do objectives. I question what these people think they are doing and I don’t think I would stick around long to find out.

If the rest of the team are moving without you maybe you need to move with the team? If you are one and they are many maybe you are going solo while the rest of the players are a team?

I try and anticipate the teams movements and communicate intentions. A “Wait” command followed by some pointing with your weapon, opening and marking the map (leave your map open a bit so pings are heard by team, this will alert the rest of the team to look or strap on a mic and speak directly to players!

I disagree. If you want a private game set your settings to private otherwise it’s a public game any Helldiver can join…

I would like to draw attention to such more extreme selfish behaviors.

Im talking about situation when 3 players can play as a team and respect each other and that host want to lead the action but then joins 4th player who dont respect that and need to run as fast as possible leaving whole team stretched trying to keep up. He thinks that he need to lead the action and fact that he is fastest gives him the right to force others to move as he likes. Thats not even strange - the player has 50 lvl and consider this as natural that others need to walk after him - he will not follow others who have loverlvls, he need to be followed because he is not playing coop game anymore, helldivers has become only a arcade game to him, a skill based shooter, nothing more.
The worst thing is that such behaviors are completely normal for experienced players who, in my opinion, completely lost the sense originally assumed by the creators.

I respect your opinion. That is why I started this thread to learn about it.

I think, however, that the game is not entirely public. Any helldiver can join and the mode name (public) is only a name but isn’t it confusing for most people? They can think its really public but technically, the servers operate on a p2p basis. Official creator’s server-based public games would have the option of voting for the player to be kicked and the mission would not have been interrupted by aborting. I keep repeating with the same arguments but maybe I focus too much on the technical side. In this game 2 mentioned options (kick,abort) are available only to 1 player. The host.

I’m slowly starting to lower my expectations about random players and I don’t think they have to understand this all. After all, they can just want to play that “cool shooter game”. But when I encounter non-friendly behavior I usually punish such player by kicking him out of the group. When I am a person who joins, I don’t pay so much attention to it, but I am often surprised by how much patirnce people can have with each other and what stupid behaviors they can endure without reacting to them.

I think I understand what you are saying, a lot of games are p2p (because it’s way cheaper!) but your point is only the host has the power to abort or kick so it’s their game? I understand that view and agree mostly.

In the situation where 3 are working well and a 4th comes in who is not following the dynamic you can kick that player but I would try your best to explain what’s wrong first so then they have chance to change and failing that understand why they got kicked.

Truth is people can be selfish unthinking *************, sometimes not even meaning to be but people are individuals and we can only directly control our own actions not that of others. Lead by example, like in your initial post slowly walking to the next obj.

I still feel there is no need to make a defined leader mutual respect and watching out for eachother and good game sense is all that a team needs.

Edit: It would be interested to hear more opinions from other on this topic… :wink:

I think a defined leader or, at least, one squad member “showing roughly” the way to follow, greatly improves the teamwork. It helps clearing the mission way more fluently, with no failed objectives, and a minimal number of deaths.

When I’m hosting, teammates follow me naturally:

  • friends because they know I like to clear mission the fastest way possible. :kissing_smiling_eyes:
  • randoms because… they have no choice. :grin:

Generally, when teammates see that what the leader do makes sense, they follow anyway.

When I join a random game, I check who seems to be the leader, and I follow him/her. But if he/she makes obvious errors (wrong path, forget a briefcase, start a defense objective whereas the screen is full of enemies), I try to make him/her understand that’s not good with “Wait” or “No”.

Like IRL, there are clever people who understands right away, and dumb fellas who don’t even try to think of what they are doing.

Nothing can be done about that. It just depends if the players are veterans or not. Pretty easy to determine:

  • The player follows naturally the team global movement, it takes care to not being alone in a part of the screen.
  • The player is always ready to revive a teammate. When he/she hears a teammate struggling, he/she starts to plan a possible rescue movement.
  • The player secures cleverly an area. When defending an objective, he/she checks what teammates are doing, and don’t go necessarily help them if they can handle alone the situation.
  • When a teammate is downed, the player clears the way first before helping him/her, to prevent any risky situation afterward.
  • The player uses wisely the “aggro” trick, to bait foes in some particular situations. For example, revive a downed teammate almost dead, when there’s no time to clear the way first.
  • The player doesn’t shoot for nothing, and always think before shooting. Each bullet counts, and friendly kills are very rare.
  • The player uses a random loadout. :+1:
  • Etc.

When I see these behaviors (which, sadly, are very uncommon when playing with randoms), I know these guys are true veterans.

Art of War Chapter 3: Attack by Stratagem 11-18

Now the general is the bulwark of the State; if the bulwark is complete at all points; the State will be strong; if the bulwark is defective, the State will be weak.

There are three ways in which a ruler can bring misfortune upon his army:

(1) By commanding the army to advance or to retreat, being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey. This is called hobbling the army.

(2) By attempting to govern an army in the same way as he administers a kingdom, being ignorant of the conditions which obtain in an army. This causes restlessness in the soldier’s minds.

(3) By employing the officers of his army without discrimination

That is, he is not careful to use the right man in the right place. through ignorance of the military principle of adaptation to circumstances. This shakes the confidence of the soldiers.

But when the army is restless and distrustful, trouble is sure to come from the other feudal princes. This is simply bringing anarchy into the army, and flinging victory away.

Thus we may know that there are five essentials for victory:

(1) He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight

(2) He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces

(3) He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks.

(4) He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.

(5) He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign.[I dunno how applicable this is]

Hence the saying: If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.

If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

I have my own rules for hosting, first, I never host a difficulty I can’t complete alone (that way there is no one I can’t kick, including the entire squad if say, they’re too good to pick up samples)

If a player moves to the edge of the screen and won’t move and has no equipment there, as in the player is insisting we move a different way, they get kicked.

If a player runs away as soon as an alarm goes off without paying attention to whether the rest of the squad is also running away they are on notice, it depends on the difficulty whether I will use reinforce to push the screen or simply kick them.

If a player is hollering for the rest of the team to move and hitting the edge of the screen and they haven’t been in the game for more than 10 seconds they get kicked (this one can be funny if say, player 2 and 3 see the shiny admiral uniform and start following, hoping and praying that they won’t have to stand and fight and die and be reinforced again and again because they’re just going to run away from the enemies from now on only to have to return to their merciless game host that seems to do nothing but set off alarms.)

I should add if it’s level 12 or below, none of these really apply