Have you considered adding/changing this in game...?

thanks for the feedback man and yeah i did take the name from final fantasy lol. anyways i just hope we get some more toys to play with this coming liberty day the new difficulty and enemies were nice but new geems and weapons is what i look forward to

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Suggestion: include a Custom Mission Generator in the Proving Grounds

I don’t know about everyone else, but my gripe with the Proving Grounds mode from the 2019 Dive Harder update is that it is a Speed-Run mode with locked missions and modifiers.

The testing of that mode and all of it’s possible modifers and configurations was really, really fun because you were able to reroll the available Proving Grounds maps, objectives, conditions, and modifiers at any time (albeit in a limited fashion).

But having just one set of Proving Grounds missions to choose from for the duration of an entire Galactic Campaign is not very appealing to me, especially since I do not enjoy trying to master the same mission over and over again in order to compete against myself AND/OR other players.

Furthermore, the Proving Grounds mode seems like a perfect fit for a Custom Mission Generator!

So I hereby propose the idea of implementing a simple UI with a small selection of basic filters (limiting the choices to basic functionality and randomized settings insteads of full customization options) into the Proving Grounds game mode in order to generate custom missions for use with public, friends, and private lobby settings.

This Custom Mission Selector could exist as a fourth selectable map-option on the Proving Grounds view.

The UI to access the map customization options could either be:

  • accessible from the Proving Grounds selection view by going one level deeper

or

  • available after entering the Hellpod as part of the Mission Briefing Screen

My proposed Custom Mission Settings Menu would include the following options:

  • Set Enemy Faction: Bugs / Cyborgs / Illuminates

  • Set Difficulty: 3 / 6 / 9 / 12 / 15

  • Set Mission Type: Single Objective Type / Mixed Objectives / Arena

  • Set Modifiers: On (randomized) / Off (deactivated)

  • Set Conditions: On (randomized) / Off (deactivated)

  • Set Timer: On / Off

NOTES:
For Set Mission Type the setting Single Objective Type means multiple instances of the same, random objective type on the map (e.g. only Capture Area objectives are placed on the map), while Mixed Objective Types means that a randomized mix of various objectives like we are used to from regular missions are randomly scattered around the map
.
Arena is, of course, a Retaliatory Strike <3! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

At the very least this setting should allow for a binary choice between Mixed Objectives and Arena. :smiley:

Done!

No need for rewards, or galactic campaign influence, or anything else. The people who would likely play this mode are the same people who would otherwise abandon the game whenever the Galactic Campaign stagnates.

As much as I am thankful for the previous Liberty Day content drops and, of course, for the developers’ continued effort, work, and support for this game - including the nice and talented folks from GURU GAMES who worked on the Dive Harder update - I do feel like 2019’s addition of the Proving Grounds game mode was a wasted opportunity and a bit of a letdown for me.

I know that saying this may give off the impression that I am highly critical and ungrateful, but I also honestly believe that if the playerbase were given the option to ignore the Galactic Campaign and access ALL of the content of the game ALL of the time (by that I specifically mean the Enemy Factions) then that it would have a positive effect on the Galactic Campaign in general.

I don’t know why people are so afraid of players abandoning the Galactic Campaign and us losing Wars over and over again if players were able choose to play whatever they want all the time. Because this is what is happening right now anyway. And it happens because players abandon the game entirely for weeks, or months, or forever, out of frustration.

But if we kept the playerbase happy and engaged regardless of Galactic Campaign progress, and people didn’t leave the game, or spend their energy on trying to find or save the missions they want to actually play, then surely these same people would find it in them to help out with the war effort every now and then? Right?!

Maybe it is only me, but I am convinced that more Player Choice is better and that it would not dilute the core principle of the design philosophy of Arrowhead.

A game for everyone is a game for no-one.

But HELLDIVERS™ is already NOT a game for everyone, and more player choice will not turn it into that.

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Proving ground is competition and there was no reward cape.sad

2 posts were split to a new topic: Gauntlet Revisited?

I think some changes along the lines you mentioned would be a good move. Having the option to play normal missions with these modifiers would be great! I think there are a lot of players that would take more variety over a new competitive mode.

PG missions are short and require a totally different play style than normal helldivers as a result of being a speed run. This style in itself is less fun than normal to me and after a few attempts was not really very fun but the competition was the fun part. Seeing new times get posted coming up with strategies with your team trying for the top time. The competition did inject some friction into the community, but that is down to individuals responses to competition with most seemingly not interested.

As for the access to the other races this has only really been a problem the last 5 wars and I think I know the cause.

TLDR: Normally wars are shorter and the final race is squished fast so we have less time with one race. Recent player base spike seems the mains reason for war difficulty/length increasing.

We had a regiment size spike from war 90 compared to the average of the previous 30 wars. Using wars 79-89 for comparison to the last 15 wars:

War 82 1.5X average regiment size (successful), 15 days
War 83 1X (successful), 12 days
War 84 0.75X (successful), 10 days
War 85 0.9X (successful), 13 days
War 86 1.3X (successful), 23 days
War 87 1X (successful), 13 days
War 88 1X (successful), 14 days
War 89 1X (successful), 13 days
War 90 2X (successful), 8 days
War 91 3X (successful), 38 days
War 92 4X (defeated, longest war ever), 57 days
War 93 1.5X (successful), 18 days
War 94 3X (defeated), 45 days
War 95 3X (defeated), 49 days
War 96 2X (defeated), 35 days

Historically wars have been about 2 weeks with a common range of 1-3 wks with some 4+. These recent long wars seem to be a combination of the galactic campaign responding to the player spike and perhaps other factors such as a change in community play style, I know there are less influence chasers than before. Add to this the counter attacks from the illuminates have been very fast at 2 hrs each sector, in a 24hr period we can go from attacking their home world to defending super earth! We have to crush them first hit! :smile:

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This is long thread… tl;dr but I did search for the word ‘ricochet’ before posting:

Anyways, I’m like seeing it in the game and it feels right at least in my mind… like a turret that has a rate of fire between grenade turret and mg that fires bullets that ricochet based on what they collide with, probably with a certain number of bounces… for some enemies they might should pass through, while others they bounce with damage, and still others bounce with no damage, probably based on armor numbers… and maybe a disposable or non-disposable gun that fires the same bullet.

I think it would add a lot to the already existing controlled chaos that this game engenders.

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I like that idea, but I think it would be carnage with FF…maybe that’s good?! :joy:

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Could we get nerfs for the most used weapons? As this game has become too easy as the player base gets higher levels and better and still very imbalanced

To be clear, I absolutely love this game and appreciate the developers. I just think nerfs would be super easy to implement, make the game more interesting, make the weakest weapons more viable, and not harm the game for lower difficulties. Kill 8 birds with one stone

Some things that are never used I think could use a buff, like heavy armor… But I think it’s far more important to nerf the most favored items, even if just SLIGHTLY, like lift, bubble shield, stratagem priority, boots, static field!!!,devastator, rec ( there are so many options on how to nerf).

Although rep 80 isn’t used much, when it is it’s crazy op at mk2 and could use rework.

Rail cannon could use a buff,stun items, double freedom, arc thrower, rail cannon. M5 APC,

This would make the game more challenging and interesting at all levels, for all players. Please for the love of God just some slight nerfs to bring variety back into this game

Lmg car, Punisher, orbital, stun, arc thrower and many other guns could use easy to implement buffs too as they are never used because they are not viable and so hugely underpowered
Justice needs a huge nerf.

Cyborg enemy master needs a buff against mines.

I also feel that there isn’t a lot of variety in the “meta” weapons.
I wouldn’t call myself a particularly good player, but I don’t want to tryhard this game.
The effects of this are clearly shown in my go-to loadouts (links in my profile)
For context, I don’t go past Helldive.
Do my loadouts really matter though, as long as I am enjoying myself?

Graves said it best:


Do you feel like there is a meta loadout? What is it?
Does it change across difficulties? Across factions?
When you play online, do you see everyone using the same loadout?

You don’t see the Constitution in my loadouts, but not because it’s hugely underpowered.
It’s that it takes a lot of skill, and knowledge of game mechanics, to use effectively.

Maybe once in a while to spice things up I’ll pick out an “exotic” weapon and do a few missions with it, but like I said before, I enjoy having an easy time appropriate for my skill level.

In general my belief is that only higher level players who have exhausted their fun in the game will appreciate nerfs, but from my experience that’s either because they are trying to “guide” less experienced players to “have fun with the game” – which isn’t right at all – or because they want other players to “open their eyes” and see everything the game has to offer, but that still shouldn’t be the higher level players’ duty.
So I don’t agree that just nerfing will make the game more interesting at all levels for all players.

I feel like judging weapons by their solo performance isn’t really fair in Helldivers, since at its core, Helldivers is a team game. You can complete missions fairly easily as a strong, well-oiled, coordinated team, even using the Constitution! (like I said before it’s not a bad weapon, I use it as an example because a new player would struggle with it)

I do think that having weapons which make you a one-man-army is slightly problematic, but nerfing them would probably affect solo players too…

Only slightly related, but I am all for being able to remove or undo upgrades for equipment, which has been suggested before. I think it would allow for more handicaps, and that would indeed make things more challenging and interesting for higher level play.

It will make it more interesting for the small % of players who are noobs by making other guns and builds more viable. Keep in mind this game has level 1-3 for noobs. Certain items in this game are far too good at handling all situations at all levels, like the Justice and static field.

There is so much content in this game that is rarely used at ALL levels by ANY players, because of the complete dominance of the items I listed. Nobody uses scythe, arc thrower, camper, railgun turret, stun items, defender, or punisher. Maybe they can be buffed but I think it’s much more important to nerf breaker, Justice, lift pack, ATB, etc.
God there are so many cool strategems that literally never get used like the APC because they are absolutely dominated by another similar strategem. Orbital laser could be buffed just by reducing the input complexity or cool down. Lift packs should not have so much fuel it’s absurd. Incendiaries and smokes are too weak compared to other perks too

The Trident is a great balanced gun. Costs a ton to upgrade, good for solo bad for teams, low skill.

And the cyborg master is an absolute joke it’s just a mk2 mine spam race.

The most important and demanded nerfs belong to Rumbler (decreased ammunition, 2 salvos before reload) and Trident (decreased range by half). Everything else is a secondary priority (like Hellfire & Static Field increased cooldown).

The equipment that really stand out and needs buffs are (from the weakest) Pyro, Thunderer Smoke Round and oversight with Arc weapons vs. Legionnaires

There are many difficulties to choose from to satisfy every skill group, if the difficulty is too tough then you should lower it.

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These relatively easy to implement changes would make my Liberty Day. The reason I desire these is because they would bring more balance and we would see more variety in loadouts used at all levels.

Please SLIGHTLY Nerf:
Rumbler (Less ammo)
LIFT (Less fuel)
Static Field (Less range and/or duration)
Devastator
Breaker (Less range)
Trident (Less range)
Stratagem priority (40% to 30%)
Railgun (Completely dominates camper)
ATB (Rotation, or sprint speed penalty?)

I feel that these are almost never used because they are too underpowered:
Buff (even if slightly):
Hammer (Needs huge buff)
APC (Needs huge buff, completely dominated by the other vehicles, or nerf HAV)
Arc Thrower
Pyro
Thunderer Smoke Round
Double Freedom
Punisher
Scythe
Stun mines
Incendiary Grenades
Heavy Armor
Cyborg Enemy Master (Against AT mines)
Double Freedom
Railgun Turret
Smoke Grenades
Strafing Run
Orbital Laser

Additional:
For more challenge, slightly less ammo capacity for either levels 30+ or just higher difficulty missions (in exchange for more EXP or something?)

I think you meant to say hammer motorcycle, you could probably double that guy’s health and armor and it would still be very difficult to keep alive

# New Bugs enemy: PYRO BEHEMOTH #

Encyclopedia Description (Pyro Behemoth)

Pyro Behemoth

This type of Behemoth comes from the depths of the planet mantle. It usually lives and stays under the crust but the raging war between our proud Heldivers and these nasty Bugs, has awaken them. Its shell is made of molten lava and incandescent rocks, so beware not being too close to avoid burning damages. When a Pyro Behemoth furiously emerges on the battlefield, it burns frantically everything in its path, by belching out a powerful stream of fire and lava.

In-game Consequences (Pyro Behemoth)

  • The Pyro Behemoth emerges on the battlefield like a regular Behemoth, but once targets are within reach (Helldivers or Super Earth devices), it swipes its surroundings with a huge stream of fire (basically a giant flamethrower).

  • Any Helldiver standing too close from the Pyro Behemoth shell, takes instantaneously fire.

  • The Pyro Behemoth also ignites enemy units, which then charge to Helldivers to spread the fire.

  • If a Pyro Behemoth is impeded by the Static Field Conductors stratagem, it shoots automatically an extended burst of fire (longer range than when it attacks being mobile).

  • The Pyro Behemoth counter-attacks with a burst of fire when an Helldiver uses the TOX-13 Avenger.

  • The Pyro Behemoth requires twice the amount of damage to be killed (including Mines) than a regular Behemoth, due to its molten lava shell.

Implementation in Helldivers (Pyro Behemoth)

  • The Pyro Behemoth uses the same graphic model than the Behemoth, but with a reddish color scheme. It has twice the resistance of a Behemoth.

  • The Pyro Behemoth’s fire burst is the same graphic FX than the flames of the FLAM-40 Incinerator, but with a more reddish hue.

  • Spawn rate: replace randomly two Behemoths at most in any difficulty in which Behemoths spawn.

Why? (Pyro Behemoth)

  • The Pyro Behemoth is more difficult to handle than a regular Behemoth: simply spamming Static Field Conductors stratagems is not so efficient, aswell as using TOX-13 Avenger, as the Pyro Behemoth can counter-attack in long range.

  • Makes Bugs way more threatening due to the fact they can now spread fire if they’re ignited by the Pyro Behemoth (especially the Brood Commanders, which are almost immune to fire).


Phew, only one more mockup to build, and I’ll have suggest everything I had in head since years.

Thanks for reading, and as always, feel free to comment!

4 Likes

I think we can all agree the Trident and Rumbler perform the best with the lowest effort and are therefore most often seen. The question is are they too good?

I think the only thing that matters is choice.

Nerfing just to force people to use other weapons might not be the best approach. Look at the AT-47, a now dead stratagem even though it is still viable just not easy solo like before.

Is this a competitive game where weapons need to be balanced? Can you make your own set of restrictions and limitations to increase the challenge? Can some people enjoy the game by crushing the alien scumbags with overwhelming force while other use more creative methods? I think the answer is yes but probably not at the same time or game.

I would like to see a little less rumbler and tridents in public games, they are over performing and very well represented in matches. I want to point out however some people enjoy the challenge of the game some just enjoy the game. The average mission difficulty is ~6 not 8, 12 or 15 but 6.

Also don’t forget a big part of the fun of HD is the silly crazy deaths from OP weapons. I was in a Bug RS yesterday with a full team and the lvl 27 killed us all with a VERYclose proximity rumble, it was hilarious and we all got back into our pods to retry with an “affirmative”. It’s a game we can have fun with it in different ways…

I would also like to focus more on quality of life features like fixing the game crashing on PS3/4 and things like being able to see the lvl 15 planets available on host ships. Otherwise a full compliment of enemy and mission types on higher difficulties would be nice. No tanks on RS13+ Borg and few dogs on higher difficulties has been mentioned before. Assassination for example could be a clusters of enemies more lethal higher health enemy like @Tann was suggesting. I’m curious about the pre feedback Illuminates, if RS13 was unchanged but the rest turned down can we see what turned up would be like? :smile:

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An easy way of balancing the Trident would be to replace the heat dump canister ammunition system, by something like a battery, with limited shots available (30 shots per battery for example).

Once the battery is empty after 30 shots, the player has to reload. And to refill the number of batteries, use the Resupply stratagem.

Currently, the main problem is not that the Trident is overpowered (a bit though), but more that players just shoot continuously and mindlessly, as it is very uncommon to overheat it (unlike the LAS-16 Scythe).

So they never stop shooting, even when there are no enemies, it’s just about mashing the fire button, inducing a lot of stupid friendly kills.

If the ammunition were limited, maybe they would think twice before shooting like crazy, almost randomly where enemies are (or not).

2 Likes

But that defeats the entire point of the trident being a laser weapon.

I’d think the Trident needs either

A: a massive nerf to the range (like even shorter then the tanto)

or B: 4 times more heat generation.

The trident just excels at everything, the „downside“ is, that sometimes the pattern isn’t the best. Wow. Big deal. And sadly I don’t have the exact numbers, but it feels like every laser from the Trident does the same amount of damage as a pulse from the sickle. It feels like quad damage.

It’s especially jarring when only the Trident is such an outlier. Almost everything else is pretty fun and balanced but the trident is so overused that tells you how strong it is. And then we got the arc-thrower and -shotgun. The exact antithesis to the Trident. Feels weak against enemies but it’s easy to kill friendlies with it. The charge mechanic is a good idea but the charge time and damage value are pretty high/low.

Aside from that I really wish we could get some separate slots for sidearms, grenade types and one for „perks“, because there is de facto no choice between all terrain boots vs pocket flamethrower; cardio accelerator vs plasma pistol and stratagem cooldown reduction vs revolver.

Just my 2 cents.

Best regards from germany

Shivalah.

3 Likes

Maybe the camper gets a laser sight by default?

I know it’s nearly impossible in the current game but… I was thinking of a special PVP event, my scenario: a bigger map with more normal objectives but, a second drop with another group of helldivers (a private clan or a pirate helldivers society maybe?) with the same mission, the team with more completed objectives at the end win the map and earn exp bonus, or can rank up a specific pvp ranking, naturally in the game a group can eliminate others getting their dropped weapons and equipment. The elimination of all members of a group results in a mission failed,while last standing group continue the game normally.
Perhaps the radar cannot detect the enemy group and the game turns more challenging and everyone must stay vigilant even in low difficulty levels… New dedicated stratagems can be added like a portable radar jammer or a drop of sand bags for cover, a shovel to dig trenchs or even a modified version of distractor beam that make aliens attack only the enemy group, using other esisting stratagems like the thunderer smoke round and smoke grenades make better sense in this game mode.
Maybe we can see something like that in a sequel of helldivers??? Anyone agrees with me?

PS: sorry for my english :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like